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Capcom/Ninja theory's plan was to replace Dante?

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CoolDemon

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I believe Capcom/Ninja theory hoped to replace Dante and DMC. By that i mean go forward with a DMC game using DmC. Afterall DmC is using DMC as template (Gameplay, character, story).

In a other thread me and Dante Icognito discussed if Capcom/Ninja theory was crystal clear about Dante being "a Dante" not THE Dante. I sticked to my point and that is that Ninja theory/Capcom was not clear about the character Dante and the character in DmC.

I told Dante ICognito that during a interview Tameem said "Younger Dante", and D I said that it's probably because they were thinking of a younger Dante in context of DmC and not in context of DMC's Dante.

I replied that we have seen Dante over age of 18+ so far and that's why Tameem said "younger Dante" because he talked about DmC's character in light of DMC Dante. And with this that Tameem meant that it's the same Dante just changed.

I pointed out then that if it's the same Dante (100% the same character just changed) then how can they say it's a parallel universe. I watched the interview again where Tameem said it's a younger Dante, and in beginning Alex Jones said "It's a reboot". And so i agreed with D I (Dante Icognito) that Tameem probably talked about a "younger Dante" in DmC not a Dante younger compared to previous Dante's in DMC. In other words: Tameem was talking about "their" Dante being young and not younger in contrast to THE Dante in DMC games.

I looked back at the interview and Alex Jones did mention reboot. So i was wrong about that.
I think the same as you D I but i didn't catch that Alex Jones said reboot earlier on in the interview.

I hope your still with me.

But i don't think i am wrong no longer after coming upon this quote:

"If Dante, dressed as he was, walked into any bar outside of Tokyo, he'd get laughed out. What Devil May Cry did when it launched was it brought everything that was great about action cinema like the fashion, music -- it was like a cultural melting pot -- and I feel like now, for Devil May Cry to have that same impact, it needs to draw on new things. New music, new ways of cinematography, new fashion."

Here Tameem is saying the reason why DmC Dante is changed is because "old" Dante is no longer cool and he would get laughed out in a bar. This clear shows that DmC Dante was intended to be THE Dante. But because fans reacted very negatively towards DmC and it's character they decided "let's just call it a parallel universe so that it does not get any more negative publiciity".

And this makes me think they intended to replace Dante but fans didn't allow it. And that is why they never made crystal clear statements like "This is not the same Dante". Because they probably were testing fans.
 

Asmodaius

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If Capcom decides not to continue the original series, then I wouldn't be all torn up about it, to be honest. It had a good run, and though there are still some unfinished business to learn about, I wouldn't find myself staying awake over it. I couldn't care less about Nero's origins, as I find him an overall bad character design (to me he's just a Dante clone, and an uninteresting one even). Of course, if they were to do more games with Lucia, my interest in the original series might be rekindled, but as it were, it seems like Capcom would just pretend DMC2 never happened.

I hope DmC will be succesfull enough to replace the old series. Starting anew with a new story instead of trying to fix the clusterf*ck that is the old storyline seems to be for the best, at least in my opinion. I enjoyed the former DMC games for what they were though, and I can't wait for the HD collection to be released so I can play through the three original games that made Devil May Cry so interesting... There is an if though... and it's a bit if! IF they decide NOT to have Lucia's playthrough of DMC2 as part of the HD collection, then I will boycott the original series entirely and stay focused on the new DmC.

And if the new DmC ends up being bad, then I will put Devil May Cry on the shelf. It will be a disappointment, but it won't wreck my world. In the end, it's just a game.
 

Pale Rider

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Since you've mentioned my name, I thought it wouldn't be nice if I didn't reply.

Now, first thing first. Since you've raped my username, you'll have to suffer from my wrath - angry faces wrath -> :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Secondly, if you want a short name then please don't use space b/w 'D' and 'I'.

Ok. Now on topic.
They INTEND to replace Dante but not 'cause of the reason you gave, but 'cause of the statement in which that guy (dunno his name) said that they will be seeing where this reboot first. If this reboot is hit, then we probably never see DMC again! That quote where TA says 'Dante will be laughed n all', in my opinion, tells that he was just expressing his opinion on DMC and its Dante. And we all know how his idea of developing a cool character was met with.

On the part where you say that they are not crystal clear about Dante, I look at it in different way - They WERE not crystal clear about their Dante.
 
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CoolDemon

X will never be Y
Nov 2, 2011
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Since you've mentioned my name, I thought it wouldn't be nice if I didn't reply.

Now, first thing first. Since you've raped my username, you'll have to suffer from my wrath - angry faces wrath -> :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Secondly, if you want a short name then please don't use space b/w 'D' and 'I'.

Ok. Now on topic.
They INTEND to replace Dante but not 'cause of the reason you gave, but 'cause of the statement in which that guy (dunno his name) said that they will be seeing where this reboot first. If this reboot is hit, then we probably never see DMC again! That quote where TA says 'Dante will be laughed n all', in my opinion, tells that he was just expressing his opinion on DMC and its Dante. And we all know how his idea of developing a cool character was met with.

On the part where you say that they are not crystal clear about Dante, I look at it in different way - They WERE not crystal clear about their Dante.
Leo Tan said the thing about reboot. Now please understand me correctly:

If they were talking about THEIR Dante then why compare it to DMC Dante with saying "Dante would get laughed out in a pub at Tokyo"? It's clear they didn't try to create a Dante but the Dante.

And many fans found the character design failing. And then later they say it's a parallel universe - a different Dante, that is not the same Dante. not THE Dante. It's contradicting saying "Dante is no longer cool" and later then say "It's a parallel universe". Because "Dante no longer cool" means that they intended for DmC Dante to be looked at as original Dante.

When Tameem said "If Dante walked into a bar in Tokyo he would get laughed out" he was talking about DMC Dante. And Tameem expressed that's the reason why they changed Dante. And he was talking about DMC Dante not their own Dante. Because if he was talking about their Dante then why say what he said?
 

Pale Rider

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When Tameem said "If Dante
walked into a bar in Tokyo he
would get laughed out" he
was talking about DMC Dante.
And Tameem expressed that's
the reason why they changed Dante.
Indeed. He was talking 'bout DMC Dante.
-"That quote where
TA says 'Dante will be laughed
n all', in my opinion, tells that he was just expressing his
opinion on DMC and its Dante.
And we all know how his idea
of developing a cool character
was met with."-
He realised his mistake and said that his Dante is in a parallel universe. End of story.

Because if he was
talking about their Dante then
why say what he said?
He wasn't talking about his Dante. There was no 'his Dante' at that point. There was only 'a NEW DANTE'.
NT/Capcom were expecting some negative reponse but not at such a large scale. They, then, announced this DmC to be set in parallel universe - their final attempt to calm down some angry fans. End of story.

EDIT:
One more thing. I understand that you look at TA's statement of Dante getting laughed out as a potential threat of DMC & its Dante getting replaced. Whereas, I take it as TA's attempt of defining something cooler than previous Dante. So yeah... Difference of opinions.
 
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CoolDemon

X will never be Y
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The new character was Ninja theory's Dante (their creation) from the beginning. It sounds like if your saying that because they didn't say it's in a parallel universe in the beginning it made the new character not Ninja theory's creation which is not true. They created that character - so it's their character whether it be a Dante or not a Dante character.

This just shows how they intended for DmC's Dante to replace DMC Dante but it failed and that's why they went back on their words and called it a parallel universe. When in a early stage a developer talks about the changes done to a certain Dante it tells me that they planned the character to be the Dante not just another one.

When Tameem said Dante would get laughed out he meant that's why they "changed" him. And if Tameem is talking about why the change happened then he's also talking about the same character - the Dante (DMC).

Or did i miss something? Because they said DmC is a reboot but they never said if Dante in DmC was the same character. They just talked about DmC's character as if he was the same character as DMC' because they shared the same name. Just comparing the two just goes to show you that. Alex Jones "There was over 1000 comments about why his hair isn't white".

Like i have said DmC's used DMC as template. So why does it matter to make DmC's Dante (a difference Dante and not same character) get white hair and red jacket because some angry fans say so?
 

CoolDemon

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Ohk.. I get your point.
They created a new version of DMC Dante thinking that the newer version would be cooler than the previous version, and so, the newer version would replace the older version. But there thinking was wrong!
I got it.
I hope your not being sarcastic. Not very easy to explain things through text for me :p But i tried my best.
 

Asmodaius

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I think that the two Dantes are both cool, but in each their way. DMC Dante is more slick and "The Matrix" kinda cool while DmC Dante is more punk'ish and dirty kinda cool, if you know what I mean. DMC Dante is retro cool, DmC Dante is modern cool.
 
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Pale Rider

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Naah... I don't get sick of people for stating their opinions!! Not in my nature. Good thinkin' though. I guess I was missing your point since the very beginning.

I think that the two Dantes are
both cool, but in each their
way. DMC Dante is more slick
and "The Matrix" kinda cool
while DmC Dante is more
punk'ish and dirty kinda cool, if you know what I mean. DMC
Dante is retro cool, DmC Dante
is modern cool.

This. Exactly. They both are cool WHEN NOT COMPARED.
 

CoolDemon

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Naah... I don't get sick of people for stating their opinions!! Not in my nature. Good thinkin' though. I guess I was missing your point since the very beginning.
I like to add that in very beginning of DmC if someone said "Dante is in DmC" - any DMC fan would be thinking of the Dante. I mean if DmC's main character is not Dante then they could call him whatever they wanted. Again they were using DMC as template - it means they could borrow ideas from DMC but it doesn't mean they are bound by using DMC ideas like a character having white hair or red jacket.

I think that the two Dantes are both cool, but in each their way. DMC Dante is more slick and "The Matrix" kinda cool while DmC Dante is more punk'ish and dirty kinda cool, if you know what I mean. DMC Dante is retro cool, DmC Dante is modern cool.
I personally think the DmC character looks to much like Tameem (shape, hair colour and style, habit, nationality.
I honestly don't find DmC Dante any "modern cool". The only thing that is modern to him is the clothes. If realistical art style makes a character modern then DMC Dante could be that too by going through a modern process.

And i find it hard to believe a character based off another character can be cool. I mean everything in DmC Dante is coolness stolen from DMC Dante. DmC Dante is not a unique character of it's own (which i find very sad).

Divine Comedy Dante wasn't a half demon, have white hair, red jacket or anything like that. So with that said DMC Dante's character is little from Dante from D.C.
If i was to make a character i would try to make a original character as possible. A character with great development. The greatest achievement character creators can achieve from my view is making a original character that's great.

To cut Ninja theory a break:
They said their original designs for Dante was similar to the Dante. But i have not seen any of those sketches. So without them it's all talk to me. However if i was to believe them then Capcom are biggest ***bad word lol** for treating Ninja theory that way.

And it would be nicer to see a completely new character than a copy Dante in DmC.
 

V's patron

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Sep 14, 2010
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I think an easier way to replace dmc would have been to shelve it and presented this as a original ip and say that it was inspired by dmc but they decided to make this thing it's own series called "heaven's fall" or something.

I never felt that dante's coolness and appearance were a particular problem that I would radically change. I felt the main problem with Dante was that he wasn't a compelling character since they and I mean kobayashi the wimp wasn't willing to develop him outside of his coolness. So it made me like the character less since he was the weaker parts of both the anime and 4 since everybody was out shadowing him and he was not needed in 4.
 

CoolDemon

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I think an easier way to replace dmc would have been to shelve it and presented this as a original ip and say that it was inspired by dmc but they decided to make this thing it's own series called "heaven's fall" or something.

I never felt that dante's coolness and appearance were a particular problem that I would radically change. I felt the main problem with Dante was that he wasn't a compelling character since they and I mean kobayashi the wimp wasn't willing to develop him outside of his coolness. So it made me like the character less since he was the weaker parts of both the anime and 4 since everybody was out shadowing him and he was not needed in 4.
Like i said they could have been honest and said "We're deciding to do a reboot with fresh start but we will still keep the gameplay that you saw in DMC games in the reboot. But story and character will be different". In other words a spiritual successor.

Honesty is great. But they weren't honest. They thought of business and money ...
And still they failed lol.
 

Pale Rider

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"DMC as a template"

You keep repeating that. I don't understand what's wrong if they use DMC as a template !? I mean, since they're rebooting DMC not some other series like Batman or whichever, why can't they use DMC as a template ? What's wrong with that ? In my opinion, it's quite natural for them to use DMC as a template.
 

CoolDemon

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"DMC as a template"

You keep repeating that. I don't understand what's wrong if they use DMC as a template !? I mean, since they're rebooting DMC not some other series like Batman or whichever, why can't they use DMC as a template ? What's wrong with that ? In my opinion, it's quite natural for them to use DMC as a template.
I don't find it wrong that they use DMC as template, afterall Capcom has the rights to Devil May Cry. I find it wrong to use DMC as template but at same time trying to portray the new game as the template one.

For example here is what aspects of DMC they could use:
A character with guns and a sword
With supernatural powers (if you want demonic powers)
Gameplay (This is very important).

From here they could do anything to the character they are making. They could call it "Thamus", and Thamus could be half angel and half demon etc

All that was left to do is to make the story.

RESULT:
A game similar to DMC but not DMC.

But with DmC they used almost every single detail of DMC character and it became then a pure clone of Dante just with different developers. Which is sad because it's waste of Ninja theory's time. And a character that's based off another by that degree is far from cool.

Infact if they did what i suggested it would give Ninja theory alot more freedom and Capcom could also learn from their mistake that they made with DMC series storyline. They could make a new game that has DMC gameplay but otherwise a totally different character and story.
 

Pale Rider

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I find it wrong to use
DMC as template but at same
time trying to portray the new game as the template one.
Oh, I see.

For example here is what
aspects of DMC they could use:
A character with guns and a
sword
With supernatural powers (if
you want demonic powers) Gameplay (This is very
important). From here they could do
anything to the character they
are making. They could call it
"Thamus", and Thamus could
be half angel and half demon
etc All that was left to do is to
make the story. RESULT:
A game similar to DMC but not
DMC.
Ok, Nice.
But it's your OPINION.
 

Railazel

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Is it safe to assume that they didn't really didn't have much of a plan? Considering that the details of DmC Dante have changed towards him becoming more the like the Original, I think they the whole "this is a cooler Dante" thing is just a balloon to see how we would react. To expand on the changes that I was talking about, in the first trailer, Dante was very punkish and aggressive and the story seemed to teeter towards vengeance. However, in recent gameplay footage, he sounds a little more soft- hearted (I remember in one trailer, he showed concern for Ebony and Ivory, saying "I missed you, girls") and it seems that he's fighting with a more proper agenda. Ultimately, NT might bring it back to being an origin story if they keep making changes.
 

berto

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To be honest this is how I've felt since DMC4 was released.

In DMC2 for some reason they couldn't pull off Dante right so they tired another aproach to the character in 3, that one seemed to work but it seemed like a one time thing so they tried to replace him with someone that was closer to what he was, some punk ass kid.

So what do 3, 4, and DmC have in common? The protagonists are teens. Capcom is still trying to brush off the original Dante to cater to a younger audience. They couldn't really replicate DMC1 Dante's persona so they just kept trying to replace him.
 
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